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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.16 15:15:00 -
[1]
I fly the wolf and the jaguar. I honestly haven't flown them in a while due to my experience in gangs. The scout gets a tackle. We warp in. The fight is 30km off. I miss most of it. Occassionaly there's the experience of getting that scramble and holding on like a gnat until everyone else gets there. This is more the exception then the rule however.
An AF is a heavier tackling frigate that should be very annoying to kill. My AF don't get a tracking bonus. This is a huge weakness. I find shooting at drones to be an exercise in futility even with perfect gunnery. Any kind of nuet also empties the capacitor and leads to an easy kill. For months I've witnessed the AB vs MWD debate. It's funny that so many have said AB AF are fail and yet now there's screaming that this change would be overpowered. MWD AFs also die very quickly in my experience. Not worth the 20 million isk. I think a faster AB speed while holding on to the tracking weaknesss is a very fair tradeoff. Interceptors moving at 2-3x the speed of AF will always have a place in battle. I like this change.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.16 16:10:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Cpt Branko
The non-fail AFs (Wolf is not one of those) will be OP now. Have fun shooting other AFs in a webless Wolf (not that it'd help much) when they move at 2km/s heated - your hit rate will be horrible if we don't get into the part where other AFs just zoom out of the range where you do actual damage.
Same with the Enyo, even worse - can you imagine the awesomeness of a weapon system which works at 2km, no web, vs opponents which are now going to be much, much faster? 
On the other hand, the Ishkur is going to be a beast. The Jaguar is going to be completely OP vs large ships, with over 2.5km/s heated in LG snaked (400M) hands, capless guns, and capless tank which can shrug off a pack of Warrior IIs.
(In emperor voice) Your faith in your angular velocity is your weakness...
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.16 18:32:00 -
[3]
When AF were boosted CCP left out the AB bonus because they wanted to make sure they weren't OP. After months of watching their useage the verdict is in-- People like the concept of a heavy tackler running off of an AB but they're too slow. A 10% per lvl boost might be more reasonable then 15% but the concept is sound. TBH I'd prefer this and a 10% buff on web strength to keeping the AF as is.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.17 14:35:00 -
[4]
AB AF are very situational as stands right now. The proposed change would make them more appealing as a heavy tackler choice.
Interceptors have the signature of a dessy and move at 5km/s+. AF would have half that signature and move around 1.5km/s to 2km/s depending on fittings. This is hardly overpowered. Yes - you can get them to sick speeds if you pour isk into your frigate. Very risky.
There are other tweaks that can be made as well. It's already been mentioned at the beginning of this thread that a rocket revamp is under consideration. Make the speed bonus an AF skill rather then a frigate skill. Rework T2 ammo including missiles. Increase web strength on web specialty ships. (Some faction ships are getting this - why not the rapier, huginn, hyena, ect.)
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.19 15:45:00 -
[5]
My 200mm plated wolf went from 946m/s to about 1342m/s on sissi. It could still hit targets at that speed. It was still vulnerable to nuets and drones. Drones did take noticeably longer to kill me though. I can catch a MWD cruiser if I overheat.
The problems in a nutshell:
Rockets need to be fixed.
Dedicated anti-frigate missile platforms don't work against the new AF. If you buff light missiles they'll be OP against other frigates. Maybe a t2 missile fix?
Retribution.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.19 20:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:18:06
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:17:03
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:15:57
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
My 200mm plated wolf went from 946m/s to about 1342m/s on sissi. It could still hit targets at that speed.
Yeah, it's fun clearing out from a wolf's sweet spot in <3 s in a Jaguar You see, with the mass differences (which means plate AFs get much less out of 75% to AB boost), and the speed differences, the currently faster ships on TQ are much much faster on SISI. Boost increase favours the lighter and unplated ships.
The wolf is very useless compared to a Jaguar post-patch, honestly.
I like the wolf's 33m signature, it's tank, and it's DPS. The new speed helps it out quite a bit. The jag is the fastest AF for certain and with a MSE it's very hard to kill. I don't like it's DPS when it's set for pure speed though.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.09.20 22:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xing Fey
Really, this. I feel the 15% AB bonus is great for the "heavy tackler" line of AFs (Enyo, Vengance, Hawk, Jaguar) but for the other "combat" AFs it's either overpowering (Ishkur, Wolf) or redundant/useless/silly (Harpy, Retribution). I'd rather see the second line get a set of tracking bonuses for the gun AFs and a (5% ?) drone velocity bonus or something for the Ishkur. Not only would this help general balance, it would also make them excelent counters for the tackler AFs.
Most of the AF were designed with one being "combat" or up close and the other being a "sniper." Remarkably the HACs were designed the same way.
The advent of the new scrambler has allowed the combat AF to effectively tackle. You can get a point AND turn off the MWD of your opponent. Give these the AB bonus to give them their intended role. These would be the:
Wolf
Enyo
Vengeance
Hawk
Fix rockets. Let's talk about the other AF.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:41:00 -
[8]
Well, this thread is no longer "sticky" so I'm guessing it's back to the drawing board with no solution by Dominion. It's for the best but a bit dissappointing. We would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky kids and Cpt. Branko. 
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2009.11.02 12:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
This, basically.
They need a (non-OP) role. Since it's frigates, tackling would be ideal but it's already taken by interceptors. Damage is largely covered by SBs if you want a frig hull (with the appropriate downsides though).
There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. Interceptors are light quick tacklers that are fragile. AF are tankier, slower AF that are harder to get into position but latch on like a bulldog once they're there.
An aspect of the AFs is that they're fashioned into a "sniper/close range" option the same way that HACs are. The Harpy can shoot out to 100km. It does it's job. The Retribution is built to follow the coercer's example in a hardier hull. It needs a nudge on fitting to squeeze a sniper into it. The Vengeance and Hawk both need rockets fixed.
Gallente and Minmatar are mixed up. The Gallente get drone boats rather then pure sniper platforms. A close range tackler needs mids though and both close range variants for the Gallente and Minmatar have only two mids. The drone and sniper hulls have 3 and 4 mids respectively. The enyo as a blaster boat in particular needs to pin down it's victim to make up for it's pathetic range. And the jaguar - why fit it for range with 4 mids that people would rather fit MSE into? Swap the Jag and Wolf bonuses. Give the Wolf more of a grid for artillery. People will hate me for this to - but swap the slot layout for the ishkur and enyo. The point is - if you by design WANT a sniper frigate - force the layout to go into that. If sniper layouts sound absurd, then cut each race down to one AF and make it the ideal for that race. And just give all the race's their fourth frigate bonus.
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